While the “business” aspects of conference expansion suggest that Clemson would not be much of an addition to the SEC, there’s a loud bloc of fans who believe the league should grab schools that are nearby and easy to reach. Many of that group want Mike Slive to invite Clemson to come onboard.
But what’s the view from Clemson?
Travis Sawchik provides in today’s Charleston Post & Courier five reasons why the Tigers would want to join the SEC… and five reasons why they would not want to enter the league.
His reasons for making a move:
1. The SEC could provide more money
2. The Clemson-Carolina rivalry would get even hotter
3. The SEC would provide a more intriguing schedule
4. The toughness of the SEC would make Clemson tougher
5. If Clemson thinks the ACC is in danger, it should be proactive and get while the getting’s good
His reasons for staying put:
1. Clemson would have an easier time becoming nationally relevant in the weaker ACC
2. Clemson is 47-123-10 all-time against SEC teams not named South Carolina (And some people question Texas A&M’s record?)
3. Clemson can recruit just fine without joining the SEC
4. To join the SEC would be like “buying a stock at a 52-week high”
5. Clemson helped found the ACC and would lose 58 years of history by leaving
Looks like he had to put more work into finding reasons to stay put.
Oh...and the SEC big wigs want to keep the cohesion of the conference...therefore, they are not going to ruffle feathers with Florida (to get FSU) or South Carolina (to get Clemson). What would ruffle their feathers you ask?? Hmmm... adding in teams in THEIR recruiting grounds. These schools like to be able to say "we are the only in-state school in the elite SEC", etc. Why would UF and USCe allow their main recruiting areas be shared?? They won't. Sorry Clemson.
The SEC is the best football conference, period. IF the SEC adds teams, WHY on earth would they add a team that can't even win the ACC?? The SEC wants the best. In my opinion they want VT. Mike Slive has stated before the only team he would consider is VT...then find another team to make it 14. Virginia Tech would add a great football program, great fans, great college town atmosphere, tradition, the Corps (which is the only other school that produces military officers other than aTm), one of the best coaches in the history of college football, an up and coming basketball program, good academics, southern atmosphere, the largest campus on the east coast, AND a completely new TV market, which is huge by the way...do you know how many Hokies are in the Hampton Roads, Richmond, DC, Baltimore, and then not to mention Raleigh & Charlotte, NC areas??? There are A LOT. The SEC wants to keep their elite status...and that means you have to at least have won your conference championship once...if not three times (and recently).
The 47-110 record by Clemson all time is not an indication of how things would be. 65-39-4 all-time record vs S.Carolina, 3-1 all-time record vs Big Ten, Beat Tex A&M last time we played in 2005, what a game! Go ahead and get your additional TV sets and markets with Tex AM and they have great tradition, expand your footprint and then balance it out with somebody with an atmosphere, travelling fanbase and location that is the very definition of why the SEC has been such a successful brand. Rabid fans, backyard rivalries, big stadium and great college town. Great Baseball program and stadium, NCAA tourney basketball and great 11,000 seat arena. The hill, the rock, Frank Howard.
Clemsoners...
I don't think that all-time record stuff means a hill of beans, either. The writer of the article used them, so we posted them. Then we pointed out how many people have been screaming about A&M's all-time record.
The bottom line is this: Both A&M and Clemson are comparable or better to where Arkansas was when they joined the program and both are in far better shape than South Carolina's football program when they joined. Arkansas has been up and down but with Petrino has really hit its stride. And it took years for Carolina to be built up, but they're plenty competitive now.
I think A&M and Clemson would both be fine in the SEC. If Mississippi State can climb, why couldn't Clemson or A&M? Both are traditionally stronger. More people need to realize that.
Thanks for reading,
John
I have to admit, I have always dreamed of Clemson playing in the SEC. It is the atmosphere of the venues and the passion of the fans.
yeah, I remember Arkansas was awful it's first few years. But they won the west about three or four years in and started turning things around. They've won or tied for the west division title 4 times. It took South Carolina getting old Lou and the old ball coach to start turning things around. Both are highly ranked sec teams now. So I agree. Where it might be a rough stretch for a few years, they can win. It's not like they're going to have the same teams they've had, playing forever.
I don't doubt that Clemson fits into the SEC. The problem is that they don't bring anything new to the table. They bring no new markets or recruiting grounds and they don't bring a stellar academic reputation. It seems that the SEC presidents are trying to improve the conference's academic reputation and not simply add someone who is as good as the other schools already in.
I think Clemson is a last ditch effort in the event the SEC can't get who they are looking for. And even then I'm not sure the SEC presidents will vote to expand at all if they can only get one school that they want( A&M).
Yep, I keep trying to play out a scenario where we get in, but it won't happen at 14 teams, the only chance is a 16 team league. And like you say, I can't get around the fact that there is just already an SEC team in the state and today it is about tv sets, money and adding states to the footprint. I will have to hope that like I said above the SEC goes to 16 and takes care of their new markets and has one space left for a team that simply represents what made the SEC brand as popular as it is today.
Clemson's record since 1977 vs teams that were in the SEC the day of the game is 23-21-1.
6-9-1 vs Georgia
12-6 vs South Carolina (series is much more one-sided in the last 30 years, but SC in SEC only since 1993.
0-1 vs Bama ( a Bama team that beat many SEC much worse than they beat Clemson that year)
0-3 vs Auburn (two overtime losses and a 4-point loss in the then Peach Bowl when AU came back to win)
4-2 vs Kentucky
1-0 vs Tennessee
0-1 vs LSU (a 10-7 Peach Bowl loss)
A lot of the losses are courtesy of Bama, Auburn and Georgia. Prior to the 70's Clemson had to play UGA, GT (sec at the time) and other SEC teams 80% of the time on the road. There was no scholarship limit and Clemson was primarily playing the powers Bama, Ga, GT, and AU, while Frank Howard had a very different set of qualification requirements. Clemson will not be the top of the league year in and year out, but they can hold their own vs Arkansas, Kentucky, Miss, Miss State, SC, Tennessee, Vandy. We've won 5 of the last 7 meetings with FSU. We will give you competition, a great atmoshpere, sportsmanship, and a good time in a nice college town.
Pardon the Interruption but Clemson’s record vs the SEC since expansion (1992) is 3-15 vs teams not named South Carolina including 0 fer 6 vs SEC West. Including SC, your record is still below .500 at 15 – 18.
Your record vs UGA is 0-4 & vs Miss St is 0-1. Both were omitted above.
Pardon the Interruption but Clemson’s record vs the SEC since expansion (1992) is 3-15 vs teams not named South Carolina including 0 fer 6 vs SEC West. Including SC, your record is still below .500 at 15 – 18. {Excuse the typo re: UGA & MSU)
That is all well and good, but you - Clemson - brings limited eyeballs, and realignment is about eyeballs.
VT is the smarter move for the SEC, as it would bring VA eyeballs and recruit exposure.
Clemson should have joined in 1991, but now the Gamecocks get the SEC in South Carolina
Too little, too late for Clemson, as that ship has already sailed. To bad, Clemson would have been a great add back in 1991 :(
Clemson fans want no part of the SEC. They're always saying, "we're this close to winning that ACC crown," yet they never do, in the much weaker ACC. Imagine what would happen if they were in the SEC. It would not be pretty.
They have more ACC titles than any team in that league, including FSU with 13 and a division title in 2009.
By the way, I like Dabo Swinney because he's a Bama guy. I have nothing personal against Clemson.
I like Dabo a lot! I really hope he can make it and stay in that position for a long time. Nobody will work harder or put more heart into it than Dabo.
Yeah, but they've been in the ACC for what 40 or 50 years? When was the last time Clemson won the ACC? And their division title in 2009 was with a 7-5 record wasn't it? And even in that year they lost to USC.
They were 9-5 after the bowl win over Kentucky. And their record vs South Carolina prior to that year was the Clemson had won 10 of the last 12 games. Clemson overall record vs SC 65-39-4 and 20 of the last 27 games. There have been many years in which Clemson did not win the ACC, but beat SC easily. But it has been since 1991 that Clemson won the championship. Clemson wasn't ready for what the Tide unleashed in 2008, but Bama went on to blow out much of the SEC that year and the next. And in 2008, Clemson beat S.Carolina 31-14 and lost a heartbreaker to Nebraska in the Gator Bowl 26-21, blew a 21-10 lead. Snakebit it seems, lost to Auburn 23-20 in OT in Chick fil a then lost at Auburn in 27-24 in OT. I'd like to Clemson in the SEC, think it would be great. Don't pretend we'd be big winners, but would compete like Ark, Au, KY, MISS, MIss St, Tennessee, S.Carolina. Clemson has all the campus, town, and asthetics that S.Carolina does not. Wish it had been Clem in 1992 instead.
I always thought the cool thing about Clemson in the sec is the fun a radio broadcast would be between lsu and clemson. Today it's the Tigers v.s the Tigers. WE're playing the game here in Death Valley. The TIgers are the home team and the Tigers are the visitors. So where is the game being played at? lol
Why would the SEC want the Virginia Thugs when Clemson is so close by and wouldn't mean traveling that far
As a UK fan, I'm not interested in Clemson at all. The SEC is already in South Carolina so what do we gain??? Look towards VA. Go after VA Tech wlole new TV market up. No brainer there. We would open up the Baltimore and Washington DC tv market and all the state of VA. If we are gonna expand do it right. Besides what has Clemson done lately? They have a record no better than UK.
So the SEC can't go out and ask schools to join the SEC from another conference. They have to get on the phone with the SEC like Texas A&M. So if the SEC told Texas A&M that you have to apply and take care of your business first and we have to find a 14th team, my question is this. Is Texas A&M calling other schools presidents trying to get someone to come to the SEC? I mean, nobody would just pick up the phone like the Aggies did. Or would they? I'm just curious about how the SEC goes about this 14th school?
James Snowdwn...
We've suggested here that A&M is likely working the phones to Missouri. However, I continue to hear that the folks in Columbia are split. Many still believe they'd be a better fit -- someday -- in the Big Ten.
The SEC is likely having 3rd parties call schools to gauge interest in a move. There have already been reports out of Florida that some level of discussions have taken place between someone representing the SEC and someone representing Florida State.
Would someone simply pick up the phone and apply? If so, I'm guessing it would be a school like West Virginia... they're trapped in the low rent Big East and that league isn't stable, either.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. To be honest, nothing would surprise me at this point. From Notre Dame to Florida Atlantic.
Thanks for reading,
John
Thanks. That's the one part of this I didn't understand. I read a good article from the commercial appeal in memphis where they had roy kramer (I think that's his name. the former sec comish) and jackie sherril say the sec attorneys told the sec presidents they couldn't take a vote on a&m. that they had to take care of their legal issues first, just like you guys said on here. you guys have been the most accurate site i've seen. From what I understand about the a&m situation is their attorneys are looking at everything and could have everything done in about three weeks to leave the big 12. I also noticed an article on cbssportsline where the big 12 comish mr.beebe may give the aggies a deadline to stay in the big 12. Have you heard any information on this and how this would work? Thanks for all your information
As a Vol fan, I do not want Clemson in the SEC. That is one more SEC school we would have to recruit against in SC, GA and Florida. No SEC school wants more recruiting competition in their own back yard.
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