Comments on: Florida State Forms Expansion/Realignment Committee

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By: Homepage | MrSEC.com

Homepage | MrSEC.com — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 06:33:39 +0000

[...] this site, we’ve said repeatedly that two SEC sources have told us that there never was a gentleman’s agreement in the first place. In addition, we’ve pointed out [...]

By: Know It All

Know It All — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 14:55:55 +0000

No ACC school is going to the SEC. The expansion committee was set up to decide who are going to be members #13-16 in the ACC. We now know Syracuse and Pitt are in, hence the discussion comes down to Big East (UConn, Rutgers) to solidify the NYC and Philadelphia DMAs, or Big 12 (Texas, Kansas and/or Missouri) to expand the territory.

For the SEC's sake, you better pray they go with the Big East schools.

By: gatorhippy

gatorhippy — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:09:03 +0000

On what basis?…

The television ratings will not increase significantly & their profit margin in athletics is non-existant…the SEC already has six of the biggest names in college athletics and five of the other six are more profitable in both hoops and football than FSU…

By: gatorhippy

gatorhippy — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 14:28:01 +0000

Sorry…but I don't see it…

FSU would not improve ratings for the SEC say in Missouri to move it into first place in Missouri TV markets…while the addition of Missouri most certainly would move it to that point…

Adding FSU simply makes the SEC "more first" in markets it already is highest rated or "less second" in markets where it's not…

By: gatorhippy

gatorhippy — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 12:37:10 +0000

The perception of FSU's monetary value is grossly over exaggerated…

For the 2009/2010 school year, FSU ranked at the bottom of the pile in profits produced from athletics programs…football at 99th and hoops at 124th…THIS INCLUDES BROADCASTING REVENUES!

Louisville, WVU and Missouri ALL posted substantially higher profits…WVU football was the 24th most profitable program in the country and their hoops came in at 57th…Louisville basketball ranked as the 21st most profitable program in the country which placed it higher than any FOOTBALL program from the ACC or BE and even their football program at 90th posted over a million dollars more in profit than the Noles…Mizzou football ranked 35th and even their cagers show up at 85th with a profit margin that DOUBLES FSU football…

By: jason fsutothesec

jason fsutothesec — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 03:28:28 +0000

FSU please jion the sec and show these guys that FSU can compete and win the sec as soon as next year if and hopefuly they are in the sec. the past few years were tough but any other time between 1987 and 2010 id say fsu has about 5 to 7 sec championships and 2 NC. I hate the acc and always have, IM jus standing up for FSU and beleave the acc has made them look bad. IF you want to be the man you got to beat the man. So come on FSU jion the sec PLEASE.

By: uhoh2626

uhoh2626 — Fri, 16 Sep 2011 02:35:54 +0000

If the ACC wants to survive, they will not expand any more Northeast. They did that with BC, and it brought nothing to the conference. The northeast is pro football territory. There are lots of people that live up there, but not that watch college football. I can see why SEC fans would want the ACC to move north, because if the ACC were to actually gain some traction, they have the potential to be a very good conference, and the SEC would have to fight even more for recruits with the ACC teams as well as in conference. College football is huge in the southeast and Texas. If the ACC wants to survive and compete in TV money, the only logical place to go is west, no matter what the conference name is. Hell, that can always be changed. No need to limit your earning potential because your name has Atlantic Coast in it.

By: johnmrsec

johnmrsec — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:16:53 +0000

Never ceases to amaze…

When we make a mistake, we own up to it and apologize for it. And we sign our names to what we write.

Yet when someone comes here — anonymously — and tries to tell all of our readers that WE are wrong, have bad sources, etc and then we prove THEM to be wrong… well, those folks never return to apologize. "Sure, I tried to hurt your business and I claimed to know more than you. Tough."

How pathetic. Not even an anonymous, "Sorry, I was wrong." Yeesh.

John

By: Alabama | MrSEC.com

Alabama | MrSEC.com — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:10:42 +0000

[...] the chairman of Florida State’s board of trustees told The Palm Beach Post that his school “is forming a committee that will explore the university’s options concerning conference…Naturally, that set off ripples across the sports world.At the time, we asked:1. If FSU is forming [...]

By: Rob

Rob — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 06:44:30 +0000

Hey! Arkansas is undefeated against Nebraska and Penn St.! We may have fallen from being a national draw, but we'll be back.

All kidding aside, that's some good analysis! Looks to me as if FSU is, as of right now, the 14th team. But will the SEC expand further anytime soon? That's the question I'd like for you to answer. Personally, I hope not.

By: Florida State Forms Expansion/Realignment Committee | Alabama News | Alabama Breaking News Headlines | Alabama News Directory

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 05:19:56 +0000

[...] Send This Story To A Friend [...]

By: ACC, It’s Easy as 1, 2, 3 Hundred Million for Texas « FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT

Thu, 15 Sep 2011 04:10:36 +0000

[...] the one ACC school that I believe would take an SEC invite, so it didn’t surprise me that the Seminoles are forming an expansion/realignment committee to evaluate their options. An ACC-less Florida State certainly changes the equation for Texas and anyone else that might [...]

By: johnmrsec

johnmrsec — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 03:58:55 +0000

FSUPhD,

Not that I don't enjoy someone coming to the site and trying to tell our readers that we have bad information and bad sources, but…

We've now posted a lengthy article from 10 years ago that quotes all of the major players at the SEC, the ACC and FSU at the time. They say what I said. They say what my sources said. They say the SEC made it clear it wanted FSU, FSU looked toward the ACC instead, and the SEC covered it's tracks by deciding at that point not to extend an official offer. But, yes, the SEC recruited FSU and FSU went the other way.

It seems your professors might have been feeding you some bad information. Or at least only a portion of the information.

John

By: johnmrsec

johnmrsec — Thu, 15 Sep 2011 03:53:28 +0000

JHL III…

We've done our best to explain what happened and now we've posted an exhaustive piece written in 2001 that quotes the major players from the SEC, the ACC and FSU at the time.

Still not convinced?

John

By: AllTideUp

AllTideUp — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:06:18 +0000

I would have said you are correct, but the problem is that I see no reason why they would make this committee public if it is all about internal politics. I don't see what they would have to gain from that unless this is a prelude to leaving the ACC.

By: AllTideUp

AllTideUp — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:03:14 +0000

I have to agree with that. If Mizzou settles for the SEC then there is the possibility they would jump to the Big Ten one day and that would be a black eye for us.

By: johnmrsec

johnmrsec — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 22:01:58 +0000

seccountry…

Agreed. FSU brings higher ratings everywhere. Their local market isn't the issue. They're a big brand name. That's the draw with FSU.

Thanks to both of you for reading,
John

By: AllTideUp

AllTideUp — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 21:59:05 +0000

The only problem with 3 divisions is that there really is no logical way to decide who goes to the championship game. I don't think they'll entertain that idea.

By: B. Roberts

B. Roberts — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:56:47 +0000

14 dat,

I think the most important thing regarding expansion (besides TVs) is whether or not a school desires and values membership in the SEC. if Mizzou ultimately wants the Big 10 and just "settles" for the SEC, I want no part of the Tigers.

By: seccountry

seccountry — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 20:35:02 +0000

TV market does not even cover 1/3 of the equation to how much $$$ they bring. The national ratings for FSU is five to ten times what misso or vt bring. You are looking at local market but the espn's of the world look at the national market and that is where the money comes from.

By: atl14dat

atl14dat — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 19:55:09 +0000

Agree with you John on most all things SEC this is the exception.

FSU brings zero to the table. Very good program but Small TV market in the low 100's IIRC, Missouri,Vatech and Numerous others would be a better choice IMO.

By: JHL III

JHL III — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 19:03:43 +0000

Well, Mr. Pennington, perhaps you can't grasp the fact that, unless you can document it, *NO* SEC offer was made. The ACC made a DOCUMENTED offer, and FSU accepted.

Your assertions are basically apocryphal and cannot be verified.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

By: $EC guy

$EC guy — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 18:12:27 +0000

It boils down to this: Schools that are added have to increase the $ amount of the contract to the point that the existing members are getting more $. Texas A&M brings the Texas market so there is definitely added market share there.
RE: FSU — will they cause ESPN to increase the $ amount of the tv contract?
Funny question: If the ACC loses FSU, will ESPN want to renegotiate the ACC contract downward to reflect the loss of a national marque team?

By: TigerInGA

TigerInGA — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:39:21 +0000

Sorry, my 'trifecta' count didn't include Miami. But, you get my drift I guess.

By: TigerInGA

TigerInGA — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:35:36 +0000

In my opinion, IF or WHEN conferences go to 16 (Super…) the grabbing will be more about footprint schools with 'name' programs. As some suggest above, and I fear, IF the ACC is raided, do you think the SEC would be more concerned about protecting its eastern border (SC, GA, FL) and go after the trifecta of ACC there? If I was the SEC, I'd be concerned if the BIG-10 came calling to schools within your footprint and grabbing TV share. Thoughts?

By: Lou_C

Lou_C — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 16:08:22 +0000

Yes, this is how it happened, and widely documented.

By: UofA72

UofA72 — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:50:04 +0000

A&M, FSU and/or Missouri. Fourteen teams- 2 divisions. Fifteen teams-3 divisions of 5. Anything between 12 and 16 is easy except 13.

By: johnmrsec

johnmrsec — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 15:09:04 +0000

Apparently some folks can't grasp this so let's try again…

You know how a school will meet with a potential coach, talk contract with a potential coach, the coach will say "no thanks" and the school will then say publicly, "We never made him an official offer?" Happens every year.

Well…

The SEC let FSU know they wanted the Seminoles. Roy Kramer even made an official pitch to the school. But FSU looked toward the ACC instead. And rather than be turned down in public, the SEC decided not to extend a "formal/official" offer.

Seems pretty easy to grasp. And having talked with two people involved from the SEC side, I fully believe that's what happened.

FSU knew it could join the SEC. And it decided not to. And a lot of SEC old-timers remember that and hold that against FSU.

Thanks for reading the site,
John

By: AMVNOLE

AMVNOLE — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:27:03 +0000

You're absolutely right. FSU doesn't have nearly as much clout as most would think when it comes to the ACC. Just look at where the ACCCG is going to be held every year.

By: Sarah

Sarah — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 14:06:39 +0000

Exactly right. SEC schools never voted to offer FSU.

By: FSUPhD

FSUPhD — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:12:37 +0000

FSU was NEVER, EVER extended an offer to join the SEC. As a graduate student, two of my professors were on the board that considered FSU's conference alternatives. In their official report to the board of trustees, recommending joining the ACC, they clearly stated that there was no offer from the SEC. You might want to check your sources, John. I think they are feeding you bad information.

GL2U.

By: MIZ_SEC

MIZ_SEC — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:39:12 +0000

If Mike Slive is as great of a commissioner as everyone says, then I think he will be able to convince UF, UGA, and anyone else that adding FSU would be a great addition with major revenue upside. Florida is a big state with a ton of talent, adding one more school in the state is a great idea to lockdown to the state. No one in Big Ten country is worried about adding Notre Dame even though they have two other Indiana schools. If you have a chance to add a national powerhouse like FSU, you have to make it happen.

By: Tater Salad

Tater Salad — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 12:12:30 +0000

Unfortunately for FSU, the political power of the ACC is with the tobacco road schools, Sounds like you're assuming that FSU has the largest ego in the conference, which is far from being true. UNC and Duke were the "no" votes during the last expansion and hold the most political power within the conference – the question isn't whether FSU would clash with Texas' ego, but rather if UNC (and UNC-alum and conference commish Swofford) would have a problem with another Texas-sized ego in the conference.

By: Earl Raynor

Earl Raynor — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 05:05:28 +0000

Although adding Texas seems worthwhile, it is utterly ridiculous for any league called the Atlantic Conference to have a pod of Texas, Texas Tech, Kansas and whatever Big 12 team u can think of. The ACC needs to expand north and develop a completely separate identity from the Southeast Conference, by ending territorial overlap. The league should extend no further south than North Carolina with the exception of Miami, and expand to 16 by adding teams that are geographically contiguous and have historical relationships. If Clemson, Georgia Tech and Florida State all join the SEC, the ACC should look to the Philadelphia/Pennsylvania, New Jersey/New York/Connecticut markets, and add the following seven schools, Penn State, Pitt, West Virginia, Rutgers, Syracuse, UCONN, _and Notre Dame. The connection of Penn State, Pitt and West Virginia has been strong for years without a traditional conference affiliation and would blossom exponentially in a conference set up, Syracuse and UCONN have a similarly strong relationship which has evolved since the inception of the Big East, Notre Dame has a strong rivalry with BC and a historical relationship with MIami, as well as Penn State. Rutgers brings in New Jersey and lower Manhattan.

By: johnmrsec

johnmrsec — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:28:47 +0000

JHL III…

I have. The SEC extended a clear-cut offer, FSU delayed and looked toward the ACC, and the SEC made sure not to make an "official" offer knowing that Bobby Bowden and FSU's prez preferred the ACC.

I've also talked to two people very much involved in that situation.

John

By: Jamie Thornton

Jamie Thornton — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 04:22:39 +0000

I'm just going to say it now. SEC will add Texas A&M and FSU as it's 13th and 14th members. The SEC will stop at 14 for now. unless Missouri and Virginia Tech want to come in for some fun. But I think the SEC would be better as a 14 member conference with A&M and FSU.

By: JHL III

JHL III — Wed, 14 Sep 2011 02:39:22 +0000

You're facts are incorrect, Mr. Pennington, w/r/t FSU & the SEC in the early 90's. Both parties were talking to each other about membership when the ACC made overtures as well and FSU entertained them. The SEC was so offended, they voted NOT to offer FSU membership into the league. Look it up.

JHL III

By: B. Roberts

B. Roberts — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:07:38 +0000

I am getting killed on UF message boards for supporting FSU to the SEC. The recruiting arguement is dead. Everyone can sign the same number of players. FSU already recruits at a high level, joining the SEC won't have a huge impact. I'd also just as soon see FSU have to play Georgia tennessee and A&M prior to them heading to gainesville.

By: HoustonVol

HoustonVol — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:00:10 +0000

I still think that FSU stays with the ACC. I really don't see them leaving unless the ACC is raided by the B10. This is as much about academics as it is athletics. Moving from the ACC to the SEC would be downgrading their academics. The only flaw in that arguement is if FSU is not academically tied into the conference like VT and the tabacco road schools. Knowing that FSU is at the low end of the conference academically (though no slouch) means that some of the other schools might not be playing nice with FSU academically. I find that hard to believe that after 20 years that FSU is not tied into the conference academically.

I think it is more of the matter to make sure that FSU is prepared to present it's cases to the ACC on how it feels the conference should grow. Plus have plans and permissions in order in case the ACC is raided by the B10 to move quickly. I am sure that FSU is not excited about adding more NE schools which would stretch travel plans. If the ACC expanded northerly, then FSU would want to be in a southern division with Miami, GT and Clemson, and the Carolina schools so they would not be traveling up north all of the time.

By: Nolegirl

Nolegirl — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:49:02 +0000

Hopefully FSU is smart and realizes that if A&M and Oklahoma don't want to deal with Texas that having them in the ACC won't be a pcinic either. The SEC is a better fit all the way around.

By: halfahalfpint

halfahalfpint — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:40:04 +0000

Is it possible that FSU is responding to the rumors of Texas moving to the ACC so they can keep TLN? I dont know anything about the ACC politics, but would FSU welcome Texas' ego into their conference?

By: AllTideUp

AllTideUp — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 22:25:25 +0000

Very interesting. I'd argue that adding FSU would not hurt SEC recruiting like some think. There is point #1 that John mentioned and that is that SEC schools are already competing against FSU and losing out on more than one or two high quality recruits. Point #2 is that other ACC schools and schools from across the country for that matter are recruiting in Florida and locking up the top 2 programs in the state of Florida may consolidate the SEC's recruiting advantage in Florida rather than hurting it. Miami also may be squeezed out in that scenario especially with their NCAA troubles looming.