Rumors Have SEC Taking Leftovers: Mizzou Or WVU

September 19th, 2011 11:57 AM║ Posted By: John Pennington ║ Permalink ║ Schools: Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Tags: ACC, SEC, West Virginia, WVU

Yesterday, a Pittsburgh radio host tweeted that West Virginia has sent paperwork to the SEC:

“Same university source who told me Dana was getting hired –& was spot-on re: everything–says WVU sent paperwork to SEC today. We’ll see.”

Meanwhile, SI.com’s Andy Staples claimed that Missouri is the SEC’s target for the School #14 slot:

“Yes. RT @gregrazer: Are u also being told that MIZZOU will be #14 (if Big 12 implodes)?”

So what do we know so far? First, that rumors of SEC business usually begin outside the SEC. Leaks may come from schools the SEC is talking to, but they don’t come from inside Mike Slive’s tight-lipped ranks.

We also know that Missouri and West Virginia are leftovers in the college expansion game. At least so far.

Missouri packed its bags for the Big Ten last year only to be publicly snubbed. Things might change this time around — if everyone goes to 16 schools — but to date the Big Ten has continued to leave Missouri brass out in the cold. The Tigers have been mentioned only in connection with some Big East-Big 12 combo and the SEC. From the sound of things in Columbia, the SEC is a fallback spot for the Tigers and not a first choice.

West Virginia has reportedly applied to both the SEC and the ACC. But the ACC has decided to chase Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Connecticut and Rutgers instead. Why? When the Mountaineers are just as good in football and basketball as any of those schools?

Because West Virginia is just the 37th-largest state in the Union with small television markets. Anyone grabbing WVU would have to hope networks would credit the school with the Pittsburgh TV market. And the state’s small population means it holds little recruiting value for SEC coaches. (Currently, there’s not a Top 100 football player or a Top 150 basketball player in the state of West Virginia, according to Rivals.com.)

Also — and this is another reason why WVU was not one of the hundred candidates mentioned in connection with the Big Ten last summer — the school does not have a tremendous academic reputation. It currently ranks #164 in the US News and World Report rankings and it’s not an AAU member.

The current lowest-ranked school in the SEC is Mississippi State at #151. The league’s average rank is #98. So if/when WVU enters the league, it will immediately become the league’s least-prestigious school. Fair, not fair, them’s just the facts.

Last summer in our “Expounding on Expansion” series we ranked 18 potential SEC expansion partners in a variety of categories that league presidents would have to consider: athletic budget, facilities, population base, recruiting ground, television markets, athletic success, academic reputation, etc.

Of the 18 schools we scored, WVU came in 18th. Dead last. (For the record, Texas A&M ranked #2 and Missouri ranked #9.)

From an athletic and cultural perspective, the Mountaineers couldn’t be a better fit. But when it comes to the things that are driving the current expansion push, WVU scores poorly. Which is why the ACC and Big Ten haven’t shown much interest.

From an SEC perspective, it’s a shame that Missouri and West Virginia couldn’t be combined — and perhaps they could… by bringing both into the league…

Academics: Where WVU is lower-ranked (that doesn’t make it a diploma mill by any means, by the way), Missouri is a member of the AAU and the #90 school according to US News.

Desire: Missouri would rather go elsewhere, but WVU would love to land in the SEC.

Geography: Both expand the SEC’s footprint and borders, but…

Population/Television: Missouri is a state of six million residents (West Virginia has 1.8 million) and it includes the Kansas City and St. Louis markets.

Athletics: Both schools have quality facilities as well as good football and basketball programs, but WVU gets the slight edge.

Cultural Fit: Both are college-first towns. Columbia ranked in the Top 10 in a recent poll of the country’s top college-sports-crazed areas. But WVU is a perfect match for the SEC with its ultra-nutjob, couch-burning fans (and we mean that in a good way.)

In a perfect world, the SEC would have added Texas A&M and another big-name, big-population, big-TV draw from the East… and then stopped at 14 schools. As of now it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

So the SEC might have to race to 16 just as the Pac-12 and ACC appear to be on the verge of doing. If so, adding A&M and Mizzou for population, academic and TV purposes along with WVU for athletic and cultural purposes would be solid moves. They wouldn’t equal a Texas/Oklahoma pairing for the Pac-12 or a Syracuse/Pitt/UConn/Rutgers push for the ACC, but they would broaden the SEC’s portfolio.

Now, if the SEC did grab those three schools — and that’s a big, big if at this point — the most logical 16th school would be Kansas or TCU. Kansas carries major hoops clout and sports a 100-year football history with Missouri. That might help woo Mizzou. And imagine an SEC Tournament final of Kentucky versus Kansas.

TCU doesn’t fit the SEC’s profile — not a traditional power, located in a metro area, not the biggest draw in its area — but it would enable the SEC to double-down in Texas for TV and recruiting purposes.

Despite messageboard rumors, the Louisvilles and Cincinnatis and East Carolinas of the world are highly unlikely to receive SEC invites. Louisville and Cincinnati are seen as commuter schools and that doesn’t fit the SEC profile. ECU is just not a national player in any sport and academically it ranks just 194th according to US News. From an ego standpoint, what message would it send for the Pac-12 to add Texas and Oklahoma, the ACC to add Pitt, Syracuse and UConn, only to see the SEC add… East Carolina?

For the time being, Missouri and West Virginia appear to be the most likely schools to join the SEC family. And the truth of the matter is, they’re both leftovers.

It’ll be interesting to see if the SEC indeed has to settle for schools other leagues have passed on or whether Slive can pull a rabbit out of his hat at the last minute.

Who do you want the SEC to take? Vote in our Facebook Poll here.

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175 comments

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Ryano

WVU has low admission standards because it is (and has always been) one of the poorest states in the Union, and going back to it's founding the politicians in the state of West Virgnia wanted to give their residents who were overwhelmingly dependent on mining jobs the opportunity to pursue a higher education. However, the "academic standards" are on par with most state institutions, and to my knowledge WVU has a very highly regarded faculty.

Sure, there are many dipshits that go to WVU because of the low admissions standards, but most are weeded out after a year. It's not fair to stereotype the rest of the student body as such. There are a lot of successful WVU grads out there.

AllTideUp

Personally I have no problem with low admission standards. A private school may establish whatever mission it deems appropriate, but public schools exist for the purpose of educating the public. Should an institution of higher learning deny someone the opportunity at a quality education because their grades in high school weren't that great? It's possible that the kid wasn't mature enough at the time to give it his full effort. Perhaps the kid was distracted with an unhealthy family environment or other extenuating circumstances. Perhaps the kid was a victim of a crappy local public school system. With regard to test scores it's true that some people do not perform well on standardized tests for many reasons other than simply lack of intelligence.

The bottom line is that there is no practical reason to deny the kid a shot at an education if he wants one. All schools have minimum requirements for continued enrollment so aren't these enough? Give the kid a semester or two and if he can't cut it then you can kick him out, but there are far too many examples of individuals entering college with low scores and then fairing quite well while actually in school. It doesn't serve anyone any purpose to keep kids out of school who want it. The only concern among some seems to be "reputation." We can't let kids with lower scores in because that hurts our reputation! It's bullcrap. I never cease to be amazed at how unreasonable the pencil necks who make these decisions can be despite the fact they are supposedly the leaders in reason based education.

jam77

Perhaps if WVU beats LSU on Saturday that will silence some of the critics and haters out there. We only lost the game last year by 6 points, and we had 2 missed field goals. A year removed from that we are now a better and more experienced team with a better coach. I know LSU is a beast, but the Mountaineers can hang.

@JMoney1536

From a Mizzou man I'm just going to add my 2 cents without trying to bash WVU, FSU or any other school (except maybe those damn chicken-hawks!) Most of what I've been hearing (from alumni and fans, I don't have any insider info) is that the SEC would be a fabulous and prefered landing spot for Mizzou, many, though, prefer still the Big Ten-ish. The reason they would prefer the B1G isn't any sort of slight to the SEC, rather that Mizzou has more history playing B1G schools than SEC schools (Nebraska, or course, and Illinois, they also have had series with Mich, Ohio St, Northwestern, Penn St, and even the fabled-but -never-officially-a-member Notre Dame), the whole academic viewpoint that PR guys have tried to convince us all is the "true" reason for realignment, and the perceived closer proximity to B1G schools than SEC.

Personally, I don't think that the last two are actual deciding factors. We all know that this giant game of RISK isn't remotely about academics, and really, is someone going to tell me that Auburn, LSU, or Tennessee are institutions that have no business, law, history, science or language departments and their only major in Underwater Basket Weaving? No! They may not be ranked as high as Northwestern, Michigan, or Ohio State, but they're still major land-grant institutions with thousands of students, and I'm pretty sure they're learning more than 2+2=4. Also, as many have pointed out, It's really not that big a difference when traveling from Columbia to Lincoln, Iowa City, or Champaigne, as it is to Baton Rouge, Rocky Top, or Fayettville, and trips to Gainsville or that other Columbia, would be likely just as painfull as a trek to Happy Valley; we're not talking about going to LA and Seattle as the Sooners want to, so distance isn't that bad at all.

And sure maybe we haven't really played to many SEC, especially east division, teams as much as we have B1G, but wouldn't it be nice to. Maybe START some traditions with Georgia, S.Carolina, Tennessee, Florida, and everybody else. I would love to go see my Tigers between the Hedges, or fighting in the swamp.

The truth is that most Mizzou fans (not me for the record) feel that we have a significantly better shot at beating and potentially winning conference titles in the B1G than in the SEC. Today (9/20/2011) that is unquestionably true. but the last decade has shown that Gary Pinkel has made Mizzou relevant. David Yost is one of the best recruiters in the game today. And if Mizzou goes to the B1G, say goodbye to almost all players like Chase Daniel, Sean Witherspoon, Denario Alexander, Henry Josey, James Franklin and Ziggy Hood. Those are ALL players from Texas. How many recruits are going to want to come from Texas to play at Mizzou in the Big Ten? How's that recruiting trip going to go? A move to the SEC would keep that pipeline open and also bring the possibilities of players from Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Tennessee also.

So, Mizzou to the the SEC would give the conference mare TV sets and a school that would be in the top half academically (and one of the best journalism schools in America). MU would keep it's pipeline to Texas recruits open, get a fair and equal share (like we should have from day one--damn you longhorns) and provide a place were new rivalries could be formed. I don't see that as a back-up plan.

[also, MU's being so quite this time because A.) last year we tipped our hat (or our governor did at least) and we were made a fool of. and B.) Brady Deaton is the chairman of the Big 12 Board of Directors; his obligation is to serve the conference as well as the University, I'm sure he's keeping his ear warm on the phone with several conferences. I just hope he doesn't try too hard to make the rumored crap-er-'merger' with the Big East a reality.

AllTideUp

Wow, that was a lot of posts!

It was 161 when I first clicked on the article and I added a couple myself. Is that the most comments a MrSEC article has ever generated?

Anyway, I have to disagree with people who say that WVU does not bring value. As a college football fan I spend most of my Saturdays and Thursday nights watching whatever game happens to be on. I flip back and forth between games on Saturdays if there is no particular game on that I really want to watch. My point is this....I see a heck of a lot more games involving WVU than I do Missouri and most other Big 12 schools, a North Carolina school, or any other Big East school. In fact, I think I'm also more likely to see WVU than Virginia Tech or any other ACC school with the exception of FSU and Miami. If WVU was a bad draw then there is NO way they would get that many games on national TV.

HoustonVol

A look at the bigger picture. The SEC currently has 6 marquee teams, and is about to add number 7 in Tamu.

The PAC currently has 4; USC, UCLA, Oregon (and a new brand at that) and maybe washington. Oregon and Washington on a national level are closer to Arkansas and USCe. Adding TU and OU are just bringing up the quality of the product to the SEC's level.

The B1G also has a big 4 (and some of the biggest national brands in college sports) and many 2nd tier national brands such as Iowa and Michigan St.

The SEC is looking to add TV markets and quality product, but does not have to add championship level programs. In fact adding championship level products might actually weaken the SEC product because more teams would be taking loses. So Mizzou, WVU, even NC St. or ECU would fit that marketing plan.

LHN

I'd say A&M is about equal to Michigan State, or Arkansas, which you labeled both as 2nd tier

A&M wasnt even a marquee team in their old conference, they were "barely" 2nd tier in the former the big xii

texas / oklahoma / nebraska = Tier 1

colorado / tt / a&m / missouri / okie st = Tier 2

LHN

I wouldnt consider A&M a "Marquee" team by any means

they aren't a bottom dweller either, but they sure aren't marquee. they're somewhere in the middle tier, you might call them the "opening act" for marquee teams. they'll prob get lots of 11:30 kickoffs with the 3 daves

Stan Cardwell

thoughts on WV population decrease - very analogous to Pittsburgh Steelers fans. with Pittsburgh situated in the rust belt - folk have left western PA to find work - Steelers are most followed team in the NFL - displaced fans everywhere - back to the TV market study.

same is true of WV fans. people have to leave the state to find employment, but they never lose their identity. Kids and grandkids still self-identify as West Virginians. My son being one.

troy martinez

isnt that the case for most states these days? Kansas isn't the mecca of employment opportunities either

Stan Cardwell

John, you've been pretty fair with this - thanks. Some writers just dismiss the idea of WVU/SEC outright.

i see a couple of factors that may weigh more - our academics according to US News &WR is not stellar but that's one weighted ranking - already mentioned are other "feathers" like Rhodes Scholars. WVU as a land grant does an exceptional job of taking state students and others left out of the system (tutition costs) and giving them an excellent education - the Rhodes scholars shows that cream can rise to the top. Because we accept these students, the school gets devalued - sad in many ways.

most important - we have two of the most capable leaders in the college world in Clements and Oliver Luck, along with Gene Budig who is also advocating. We don't have to sell ourselves to bloggers and the national press but to prezs and AD's of the SEC.

TV market - I just shared a link to a NY Times that does a pretty good job of connecting TVs to "rabidity" of fans in that market. We hit 29 there which may explain why we rank 15th in merchadise and have some very high scores in TV sets on ESPN non-traditional game days.

Population - can't do much about that. It is what it is But we do pull a lot of students from New Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh and Maryland - these students and their parents become adopted WVU fans. The school spits out roughly 5000 BS/BA alums a year. I live north of Baltimore - plenty of flying WVs on cars (lots more than any kind of Maryland terps merchadise) and we populate the sports bars as well.

recruiting - the SEC has done pretty well without trying to go after the few FBS prospects WV produces every year (which includes the likes of Randy Moss), so does our anemic recruiting options carry much weight? Our addition to SEC could pull more Northeast eyes south? who knows?

well, just trying to change perception a little, but the Prez and ADs are who we really need to impress and I like our leadership on this front

culturally, it's a great fit - our fan base and tailgating and hospitality fit well - you've mentioned where we might fall short. Guess we'll know shortly.

Stan Cardwell

this article puts some science (as best it can) to the idea of market share and fan base . . .
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/the-g...

if you wade through, it can get rid of some of the perceptions - combing quantity AND quality of fan base. WVU ends up 29th in the country.

blame canada

Birmingham has the 40th Biggest TV Market, but the 6th most College Football Fans!!!!

fsu

As an FSU fan:

Replies to posts:
Jansen: What can bring us in the fold? The fans do want to come to the SEC. I'm one. I want it badly. We're in a dogcrap conference that is aligning to be the best basketball conference and we don't want to see how well Rutgers and Syracuse travel to Tally. Or whatever geographical division will come...something will be messed up.
Fans don't have the final say, of course...but the administration will do it if they think they'll make more $.
So this really hinges on if FSU would get more money as part of a revised SEC contract (revised meaning FSU/aTm will bring more $ in a renegotiation). There have been various numbers thrown around about how much (essentially) adding parts of the Big East will bring us...from not changing to more than the SEC gets. I highly doubt it's the latter and it's prob closer to the former.
If the ACC can add ND, we probably stay. If not, hey...I think the grass is greener in the SEC.

There has been a lot of odd stuff coming from the FSU side. We announce a realignment committee only to retract it two days later? Why did we do that? Was it a mistake...have we been flirting with the SEC the whole time? Was it leverage against the ACC (not accept Rutgers/UConn...push for better fb teams)? Was it to cover our legal bases if we get sued...meaning we want out? We don't know...but FSU is certainly not being stagnant here.

The $20 mil exit fee is irrelevant, IMO. Whether it's FSU/the SEC or both...there's enough $ there and $ to be made that it's nothing.

Finally, us voting to up the fee has little meaning. Why would a team trying to leave the conference tip its hand to the conference?

blame canada

good- everyone in the SEC would LOVE for FSU to join the SEC. If we are adding A&M and Mizzou, we need to add a Tier 1 program like FSU to keep up with the Pac 16 and I think it would be the perfect match

I mean are FSU fans excited about Cuse and UConn and Pitt?

We are pulling for you- ya'll make some noise and tell the FSU brass its time to bail for greener pastures (and a conference that makes geographical sense for some great rivalries)

FSU/Florida, FSU/Georgia, FSU/LSU, FSU/Tenn, FSU/Bama, FSU, Auburn... those would be some epic matchups. much more exciting than FSU vs BC, UConn, Pitt, or Syracuse

kfhonline

Does adding Missouri to the SEC also help the SEC for TV eyeballs in Chicago...I am sure alot of people from Missouri move to the Chicago area for jobs. So in addition to the St. Louis and Kansas City TV markets, the SEC could possibly benefit from more eyeballs in the Chicago area.

blame canada

well that is a stretch, considering lots of people from all midwestern states move to chicago. Not to mention schools like Northwestern which is in chicago and Illinois which is the state school... and this other school thats near by you may have heard of called NOTRE DAME

Janson Roberts

Publicly, no ACC schools are in play. But behind closed doors who really knows. For FSU, VT or Clemson, the new 20 million exit fee would not be any kind of problem if any one of those three schools really wanted to leave. Actually, there are probably about 6 ACC schools that would not have a problem with the new exit fee, but realistically, I doubt if any ACC school would leave now with the exception of FSU and that is a long shot at best. FSU would have to be very unhappy with how the ACC is moving through the expansion and FSU would have to have get an offer they just could not refuse. What kind of offer can we offer to FSU that would be an offer they can't refuse. Playing in the best football conference in the country is not the offer to get them to come. Got to have something much more tangible than that.

blame canada

well, not having to fly to Canada a couple times a year to play Cuse & UConn would have to be a plus

I mean how many fans can make weekly 1500 mile trips? (both ways)

Trips to gainsville, auburn, athens, columbia, tuscaloosa and baton rouge have to be more attractive... at least to fans.

And how many UConn fans will come down for their game in Tallahassee? My guess is you can count them on 1 hand... which means empty seats in the stadium. Could resemble some of those ACC Championship games where the stadium is about 40% full b/c its such a long trip to make on a weeks notice

But who knows if any of that actually matters to the people making decisions, although I'm sure it would make a big difference to the fans

kfhonline

Are any of the ACC teams still in play for moving to the SEC, since the ACC supposedly unanimously passed a $20million exit fee? Also, if an ACC university was/are interested in moving to a different conference why would they vote to raise the exit fee by about $8million?

blame canada

I posted this on your comment above:

I think they all voted to up the fee just to not make waves and create headlines. If it was gonna pass anyway, might as well just make it unanimous and try to keep media speculation from running rampant

I think I read A&M is gonna potentially end up paying $26 Mil to get out of the Big XII... so I dont think the ACC upping the exit fee is going to keep anyone from pursuing whats in the best interest of their program in the long run. What a one time $20 million dollar hit if in the long run you'll make it back 100 times over

I personally still think FSU is in play, but maybe thats just the fan in me that is dying for at least 1 of the 4 new teams to be a Tier 1 program. I dont think I could stomach adding 4 "leftovers". A&M certainly isn't a leftover, but they aren't an OU, TX, or FSU either

kfhonline

Sorry I posted twice...the first one did not show up, so I thought something happened...therefore I posted again. Later it did appear.

Janson Roberts

Even as a lifelong SEC fan, I disagree with your opinion on Missouri being a left over. Besides Texas A&M, who else is a better fit coming to the SEC? great University that brings everything needed to be a great member in the SEC. I think it would be a mistake to not try to bring Mizzou into the SEC.

blame canada

would you not rather have Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Notre Dame, Penn State or USC ?

You asked who would be a better fit than Mizzou, I'd say Oklahoma would be, and so would the rest of those teams as they'd turn the SEC into a mini NFL

But none of those teams are in play for the SEC unfortunately (well maybe FSU i'm keeping my fingers crossed)... so everyone is talking about the LEFT OVER schools, the schools "left over" in conferences that wont exist in a year or two... get it?

I agree with you that Mizzou is probably the most stomach-able of the "leftovers", but my SEC pride will always feel like we could have gone bigger and better

Stevenbrew

You should work on being a little more tactful. And no I would not want Texas. The next conf. they join will be trashed in 15 years. ND, USC, Penn State? Your kidding right. Maybe Stanford would be a nice fit also, It s only 3000 miles away but considering its great athletic program(best in the nation)/academics it would be perfect. What I find hard to stomach is your posts. Have a good one.

blame canada

his point was not to knock Mizzou's program by calling them a "leftover"

he just staed the fact that Missouri was "left over" by the Big Ten last year, and the Pac 10 this year

it isn't a knock on thier program, they are just a team that was LEFT OVER in the Big XII when everyone else left

4Mizzou

Would absolutely, and unequivocally LOVE for MIZZOU to be added to the SEC. Absolute NO BRAINER first choice for Mizzou fans. If you want to be the best, you've got to beat the best.

The SEC is by far the best football conference in the US.

You may not know much about the Mizzou brand. Here's some FACTS for you.

Mizzou is an AAU member. Great academics. Mizzou ranks 18th in merchandising in the country and 26th in attendance. Mizzou has engineered one of the biggest turnarounds in modern college football history. Coach Gary Pinkel has taken a team that had only been to 2 bowl games in the 18 years prior to his arrival to the point where we were on the brink of the national championship in 2007. Now bowls and winning seasons are the expectation.

When I went to Mizzou (3 years) we won a total of 9 games. Combined. In the last 4 football seasons, Mizzou ranks 7th in the country, having totalled 40 wins in the last 4 seasons.

Mizzou also brings the STL (19th) and KC (27th) tv markets in the country.

Believe me, Mizzou fans are absolutely fired up excited about this potential opportunity.

kfhonline

Does the new $20 million exit fee, that was supposedly passed unanimously by the ACC members, eliminate the possibility of the SEC going after any of the ACC teams? Also if any of the ACC teams were/are interested in coming to the SEC why would they vote to raise the exit fee by $8 million?

blame canada

ya'll still making the payments on Eric Dickerson's new ride?

roger

Boise St beat Georgia too

we aren't knocking down their door trying to get them an invite either

roger

do you not sell out your stadium every week as it is?

doesn't sound like a "die hard" fanbase to me if you dont

texaggies89

As a Texas A&M Alum, Class of 1989, I can't wait to join the SEC!!! But for those out there that think TAMU is will not be competitive, i.e. that the level of competition in the current Big 12 is subpar to the SEC, here's some food for thought.
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/26691...

Gig 'Em SEC Aggies

blame canada

LMAO if you think the competition in the current Big XII is equal to the competition in the SEC

Aggies are in for a rude awakening... but none the less, Welcome to the SEC (the bottom half of the SEC... but the SEC none the less)

texaggies89

I've heard that a lot from current SEC members, not much of a welcome, but a welcome nonetheless... Hopefully TAMU won't get lost in the bottom half, I do look forward to TAMU joining the SEC competition and hope it happens soon. But I do think those that dismiss the current Big 12 football schedule as a cakewalk compared to the SEC are not doing their homework. If you wana talk cakewalk, then let's talk Boise State. Either way, come on Slive, enough waiting already.

HoustonVol

TAMU will do just fine in the SEC. They will get better playing on the road. There are some tough places to play in the SEC. Ever notice that SEC rarely get rattled on the road, regardless of where they play. The place that will be in for a culture shock is College Station. They are used to 800-1300 fans showing up from the other team. When an SEC team shows up it is 7000+ fans. When it is Bama, it is a fleet of RV's for as long as the eye can see.

blame canada

well, its something you'll have to get used to- nothing personal thats just how we do it in the SEC, we are very passionate and love to talk trash to our rivals and as the new guy A&M is gonna get the full onslaught of trash talking as you are still perceived as an "outsider" and fans will take thier full share of hazing from the SEC elders for the first few years

I mean, we've been in the SEC for 75+ years, you can't possibly think you can just sign some papers and be treated like you've always been here

(and fyi... comments about the strength of the Big XII wont help your cause to be accepted, no TRUE SEC fan would ever say such blasphemous things as we think the Big XII is a joke)

but the hate is all in good fun... mostly

roger

if WVU is so great, why does it seem like nobody wants them?

ambivert

WVU ranks 24th in theWVU ranks 24th in the nation in television media markets. You need to do your Nielsen research. WVU's market isn't just the state of WV; it's PA and also MD. This is WVU's greatest strength. It's performance in FB and BB is it's second great asset. It's a three-tier school, so it could only get into the SEC or Big 12. Big 10 and ACC don't allow three-tier schools. As for your data on financials, you are way off. WVU also ranks 24th in revenue generation.

I don't know where you get your data, but you seemingly have no clue what you're talking about. nation in television media markets. You need to do your Nielsen research. WVU's market isn't just the state of WV

leftovers

I realize this is hard for WVU fans to understand

But you are the SEC's backup backup backup backup plan

WVU has no other options, unless there is a merging of the Big XII / Big Least Leftovers (that would be a good name for the new conference dont you think)

FSU

FLORIDA STATE SEMINOLES

mentioned here a few days ago but everyone is being quiet about that now

They are still in play

Is FSU excited about 2000 mile trips to Connecticut and Upstate New York to play programs like Cuse & Uconn? NO

Does Mike Slive need to make a splash with teams 14/15/16 (or at least 1 or 2 of those teams) YES

Does adding WVU, Mizzou & NC State keep the SEC out front on the college football landscape while the Pac 16 gets TX and OU? NO

A&M is a done deal. Not a TX or OU addition, but then again its not a dud like WVU or Mizzou would be. Its possible SEC could add A&M and 1 other team (either mizzou OR wvu) but no chance they add both of those b/c they are equally unexciting and put the SEC that much more below the Pac 16. Look for SEC to hold at either 13 or 14, and they'll make sure 15 & 16 are the real deal. SEMINOLES WILL BE IN THE SEC

Stevenbrew

SEC is not Mizzous 1st choice sorry to break the news to ya. The SEC is the leftover if the Big 10 doesnt come calling then they will accept the runner up.

blame canada

no kidding- Mizzou BEGGED to get into the Big Ten and the Big Ten laughed and told them to go back to the playground

Mizzou isn't the SEC's first choice either. Or 3rd, or 4th, or 5th, or 30th, or 40th... If SEC fans got to choose Mizzou would be between the 50th-60th choice of SEC fans

Slive's Legacy

I find it hard to believe that with the Pac 12 adding "Mount Rushmore" programs like OU and Texas (and their other 2 more mediocre partners)

That Mike Slive could possibly bring the SEC to 16 teams with nothing more than a bunch of "leftovers"

A&M is a pretty good program and has some things to offer, but from a fans perspective they sure aren't OU or Texas.

So how could Slive possibly live with himself when his legacy will be defined by this expansion, and the only schools he can bring to the table are A&M, Mizzou, WVU and lets say... Louisville for the sake of argument

SEC fans would be up in arms ready for Slive's resignation if thats what he gets for the SEC out of this freefall. We are the most powerful football conference in the land as it stands, but we will lose that claim when the Pac 16 adds TX and OU. So Mike Slive will counter back by adding, Mizzou and WVU? I just find that next to impossible to believe. I could be wrong, its happened before, but I think Slive knows this will be his legacy and no way he lays an egg like that

Charles in ireland

Texas A&M is 2nd largest Texas university and borders Arkansas and Louisian and adds Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston TV markets
Missouri is the largest State university and borders Arkansas, Tennessee and Kentucky and adds St. Louis and Kansas City TV markets
Va Tech is 2nd largest Virginia university and borders Tennessee and Kentucky and adds Washington DC TV market
West Virginia is the largest State university and borders Kentucky and Virginia and adds Pittsburg TV market
They're the 4 best SEC fits because; Texas A&M and Missouri are AAU universities that will compliment Florida and Vanderbilt academically
and because like LSU, Arkansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida & South Carolina they are either the top universities in their states
or like Alabama-Auburn and Ole Miss-Mississippi State are one of the top 2 universities in their states

knoxford

It's Pittsburgh, not Pittsburg. There's a Pittsburg in KS, and one in CA, and a Pittsboro in NC, but no Pittsburg in PA

Tony

Mizzou is definitely not a leftover school, if you think back to mid August, this whole thing started when it was released that the SEC was going after A&M, MIzzou, Clemson, and Fl State. That started the wheels turning, which were already in place from years past, which pushed Ok, Texas to know they needed to do something quick. Anyway, Mizzou borders, Ark, TN, Kentucky. Its a hop skip and a jump to both MS schools, and not far to LSU. Its a perfect fit, and I can't wait!!!!!

johnmrsec

Tony...

And that was a completely bogus rumor.

Missouri makes sense for the SEC and we've said that since last summer... when no one else was saying it. And we've made the points about location to the many, many, many people who've mocked us for suggesting Missouri could land in the SEC.

But the FACT is that the Big Ten passed on Missouri. Making them a leftover by definition. Just as the ACC passed on WVU. It's not an insult, it's a fact.

John

blame canada

You think FSU is completely off the table John?

I just have a feeling that is Mike Slive's "ace in the hole" and if the SEC really is going to 16 that there is no way it can do it without FSU. TV Markets are great, but at least 1 of the new 4 teams needs to be a TIER 1 Program. Especially if the Pac 16 adds TX and OU

maybe I'm completely off base but FSU seems more and more out of place in the ACC with these new additions, most of which are 1500 miles north. thats a long way to go for conference games

Most fans dont care about TV Markets, so if they see the Pac 16 add OU & TX, and the SEC only counters with Mizzou and WVU, people will be calling for Slive's head on a stick. If Slive can add FSU, he can pick any other 3 schools in the country to go along with them and I think the fans will be happy. As you well know, the SEC is a prideful conference, and if we lose our claim as footballs premiere conference to the Pac 16 fans are gonna be looking for a whole lot more than a couple leftovers with descent TV markets

maybe I'm way off base- but thats just my .02 from a fan perspective (not that that seems to count for a whole lot during expansion talk)

Motown

Mountaineer here. re discussion of 1.8 million population and TVs: WVU's largest alumni chapter is in Washington DC + WV's eastern panhandle is part of DC/Baltimore media market. Our 2nd largest alumni chapter is Charlotte NC. Add in the Pittsburgh market, which includes all of north-central WV and northern panhandle. Our media pull is much bigger than we get credit for.
Also: WVU's student population has been 50% out of state for at least 30 years. We have a lot more folks in the Mountaineer Nation than your realize.

Notown

its not a knock on WVU

but with the Pac 16 adding Hall of Fame programs like Texas and Oklahoma, the SEC has to counter with schools that have much more to offer than West Virginia and Missouri. Maybe 1 of those 2 teams gets in with A&M... but no way both of them do

people suggesting SEC will add WVU, Louisville, and USF are beyond insane. Those schools honestly will be lucky if they dont end up as mid majors

This is an arms race between countries. Pac 12 just added some nuclear bombs. SEC is gonna counter with some civil war era muskets (big least leftovers)

maybe 1 gets in- but more likely SEC sits at 13 or 14 and waits for better options to come along

HoustonVol

Even if the PAC adds Texas and OU, the PAC still does not have the number of marquee programs that the SEC does without expansion.

Compare; USC, UCLA, OU, TU, Washington and Oregon to UF, Auburn, UT, UGA, Bama, LSU, A&M.

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