Comments on: USC’s Spurrier Needs To Stop Whining About Scheduling

By: Tim

Tim — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:07:16 +0000

@John at MrSEC
Well I never said his plan was a good one (I said as much in my original post and I think it would be a bad idea to completely disregard cross division games) and I wasn’t specifically trying to single you out and say you hate SC or Spurrier. However, you and most of the people replying have commented on the fact that sometimes sports (scheduling is a part of sports) are just unfair. I was saying that yes they are but we don’t always ignore that, as in the case of the BCS Championship game. Most people didn’t claim Oklahoma State was just whining about not making it and they had an arguably less compelling argument than Steve Spurrier does but just as self-serving.

Furthermore, I think SC was definitely better than Georgia. Against every single East opponent, SC had a wider margin of victory, not to mention beating them head-to-head. They had one particularly bad game against a decent opponent and it ruined their chance at the SEC title.

To sum up, I don’t really agree with Spurrier’s idea although I understand the idea behind them and also find it troubling. Furthermore, people seem to whining a lot harder about Spurrier saying this than he was about the unfairness of it all.

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 17:09:47 +0000

Tim…

Folks can continue to spin, twist and bend the facts of what I wrote, but this is NOT about “unfairness in sports” or “unfairness in America” or “unfairness in the universe.” It’s about “unfairness” in scheduling. And there is NO way to create a truly balanced, fair schedule. Theoretically that would require all teams to face the exact same teams as all their rivals… on the exact same day and time… with the exact same injury/discipline issues, etc. That cannot be achieved.

Example: Some teams will get Alabama on the road this year. Some will get them at home. Unless everyone gets them at home — or on the road — that’s unfair.

And, sorry, but I think Georgia was the best team in the SEC East last year. They went 7-1 in the league and barely lost to Carolina on a number of oddball returns and turnovers. South Carolina went 6-2 in the SEC and — more importantly — lost to a so-so Auburn squad at home or else they would have gone to Atlanta. Forget Arkansas, beat an 8-5 Auburn team and USC’s East Division co-champs with an SEC title game trip lined up.

Interestingly, no other fanbase in the SEC has put forth this kind of silliness with this kind of volume since we’ve launched this site. I find that amazing, because passionate SEC fans can find a conspiracy in everything… and most would bend or break any rule or change to end any tradition if it meant their team could scrape out an extra win. Yet this has never, ever become an issue. Not even from Spurrier when the same situation might have benefited — or hurt him — in the past.

But I’ll go back to two things mentioned in the above post:

1. If the roles were reversed and Carolina had reached Atlanta thanks to Georgia losing two games against the West, Spurrier would be silent right now and you would not be posting these comments here. (And judging from past history, no Georgia fans would be bringing this kind of “whine” from the cellar either.) So is this about “unfairness in sports” or is this about creating a new way for college and pro conferences/leagues to tally division-winners just to benefit Carolina in 2011? I think the answer to that is clear.

2. If Spurrier’s format were put in place for next season and Carolina went 5-1 with a loss to Georgia and two wins versus the West to go 7-1… and if Georgia also finished 5-1 in the East — with that tie-breaking win over Carolina — but they LOST their two West Division games… Carolina fans and Spurrier would be squawking that a 7-1 team shouldn’t be kept at home while a 5-3 team went to Atlanta. Whether you’ll admit that or not, you know deep down in your heart that that’s the long and short of it.

In my view — and in the view of just about everyone not associated with South Carolina football — those factors render Carolina’s argument moot. After all, if it’s such a good plan, why is it being met with laughs, scoffs and eye-rolls by fans and media outside The Palmetto State? Is it just that the whole world loooooves Georgia? Or do we all haaaaaate Carolina and Spurrier? Unless you subscribe to one of those two conspiracy theories, then the answer seems to be that it’s just a plain goofy idea and there’s a reason no other sport has adopted it.

(And for the record, I’ve got an autographed Spurrier photo in my office and South Carolina has become my own personal favorite state in the Union. If I could move to Charleston, I’d be there tonight. So the “haaaaaate” thing won’t work on me.)

Thanks for reading the site,
John

By: Tim

Tim — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:43:29 +0000

Umm if people should just ignor unfairness in sports, then why does everyone complain so much about the BCS Championship game and why are we considering changing the format to a playoff? I’m not saying that Spurrier’s idea is a great one or that it isn’t self-serving, but you have to admit that the best East team did not play in the SEC Championship last season and that is at least something to think about.

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:16:32 +0000

CBK…

I cover the SEC. One of the league’s most successful football coaches has put forth a nonsense idea that is totally self-serving. I think that deserves a mention like any other SEC news story.

Why has it made national news and why did the commissioner care enough to comment?

Thanks for reading the site,
John

By: CBK

CBK — Fri, 20 Apr 2012 06:43:53 +0000

Why do you care John?

By: freestate

freestate — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:40:36 +0000

I would just like to add that you could use that photo in schools to teach abstenence.

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 20:37:14 +0000

stevae…

Excellent comparison. Civil rights to football schedules.

Here’s what I’d do for civil rights: Everyone can vote. Everyone can earn an equal wage. Everyone can own land.

That was easy.

Now for football: Everyone plays the same teams in the same week.

Oh, wait. That’s an impossibility. So there’s no way to actually make schedules truly fair. Period. Unless everyone plays everyone else AND on the same day, mind you, there’s no way to make schedules equal. Never has been. Never will be. And as far as I can tell after four years of doing this site, the first people to cry over the SEC’s divisional plan and unfair schedule are Carolina fans this season.

But that’s what you are… a crier. And criers always think their team gets fewer breaks.

If another coach had made this suggestion in order to help his school get past CAROLINA… you’d be firing holes in the very same plan left and right. Instead of claiming that that coach was somehow trying to fix what’s wrong with America.

On a sidenote, let me turn your question around on you for second. What exactly have you accomplished in your life that gives you any credibility to criticize me? When you pick up 7 Emmy Awards and your invited to do television and radio hits across the Southeast each week including on a network that gets into 14 states, feel free to get back to me. Or when you’ve had millions of people visit a site you write for daily, I’ll credit you on that one, too.

But for now it seems your only qualification is the fact that I choose to provide you with a comment box on my site which you can use to try and abuse me because your simple mind can’t wrap itself around complex issues.

John

By: stevae

stevae — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:12:42 +0000

“Schedules are never fair. That’s the first rule that every sports fan must accept (not to mention coaches). ”

so when we acknowledge something is not fair, the best plan of action is to do nothing? that’s your logic? so we should never have changed the laws for civil rights? or maybe we should just stick medical research on a shelf, because the first rule of life is it is not fair, and so if you get cancer, tough? no, no, no!!! this is america, you imbecile. and in this country we try to fix what is wrong. we try to improve what is unfair. only morons like you admit something is badly wrong or unfair, and then defend not trying to fix it, because everybody else is doing it. what kind of infantile argument is that? coach spurrier is a legendary coach, a hall of famer and one of the greatest football minds to ever take part in the sport at any level. you, on the other hand, are what? some loser writing on a site that no one has ever heard of? what exactly have you accomplished in your life, that gives you any credibility to criticize steve spurrier? yeah, that’s what i thought… you should stick to your day job. i’m sure circle k needs you more than college football.

By: Spurriers Visor

Spurriers Visor — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:30:09 +0000

But USC also has to play defending SEC champion and national runner-up LSU this season…..it is conceivable that USC could beat Arkansas, once again go 5-0 in the SEC-East, and AGAIN fall second to UGA as SEC-East champions. All because UGA doesn’t play Arkansas, LSU, or Alabama. And I think that’s a good justification for Spurrier’s comments…

By: XIlarf

XIlarf — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:25:33 +0000

@John at MrSEC No need to drag this out forever, I won’t debate this any more after this post. I will point out that college football is not like pro football (which has playoffs, wild-cards, teams play division rivals twice per year, other conference teams rotate predictably, etc.) or baseball (has best-of 3/5/7 series, has multiple series against division rivals, many more games, has playoffs, etc.). I wish you would quit pretending college football is just like pro football and baseball – it isn’t.

I made a very specific recommendation regarding when a team is UNDEFEATED in their division – your scenario does not qualify or pertain to my recommendation, nor did you address why a team that is undefeated in their division IN SEC COLLEGE FOOTBALL should not be the winner of their conference.

I really enjoy your site btw, just disagree with you at the moment.

By: Spurriers Visor

Spurriers Visor — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 18:22:57 +0000

@John at MrSEC This site doesn’t allow certain “characters” in signing up for commenting as a “guest”, but thanks for your concern…

Your 2nd sentence is a debate on semantics, which is the folly of fools. So have at it…

Thanks for responding,

Spurrier’s Visor

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:58:46 +0000

XIIarf…

What about when an 8-8 NFL team makes the playoffs as a division-winner while an 11-5 stays home? What about a wild card team like the St. Louis Cardinals barely making the playoffs and then beating the teams with the best records over a 162-game schedule to capture the World Series?

The SEC’s system is the same as everyone else’s system. All games count the same. And I’ll point out again that in the above scenario I tossed out, Caroilna fans would be hooting for a return to the old system just as soon as the shoe fell on the other foot.

Buck up, win your games, and capture a crown.

Just my take,
John

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:56:10 +0000

Spurriers Visor…

First, there should be an apostrophe in the “Spurrier’s” part of your name.

Second, I’m not whining about Spurrier’s whining. I’m flat out attacking it as being childish and silly.

Thanks for reading,
John

By: guesta1234567890

guesta1234567890 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:30:53 +0000

@John at MrSEC Well, on the next round of expansion, they probably won’t play them…

By: guesta1234567890

guesta1234567890 — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:23:47 +0000

In his classic way, Spurrier is just taking a dig at Michael Slive for the intra division scheduling. The OBC is krafty that way. He’s subtly making the point to the SEC brass that they got to give their potential champions head to head games against the big boys in the opposite division, something that didn’t happen last year, and likely won’t happen this year.

By: Spurriers Visor

Spurriers Visor — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 17:19:43 +0000

What’s so funny is Pennington whining about Steve Spurrier whining….

By: XIlarf

XIlarf — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 16:14:27 +0000

@John at MrSEC They would and do count. Non-divisional conference games count towards rankings and towards division championships unless (in my scenario) one team is undefeated in their division. There’s too much variance in the strength of non-divisional conference teams from year to year and schedule to changing schedule.

The “luck of the draw” shouldn’t be as large a part of the equation as it currently is, IMO. Teams rise and fall, divisions rise and fall. Just because you rotate through your non-divisional conference opponents over a period of many years doesn’t mean when your team finally play team “X” from the other division that team “X” will be as weak or as strong as they were the years your divisional opponents played them.

Instead of being happy when team “X” is down and you get to play them, and team “X” is up but you don’t have to play them, and marking it all down to “luck” or “the breaks” why not be willing to explore ways to make these awkward 7 team divisions more equitable and less prone to the whims of lady chance?

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:58:21 +0000

XIIarf…

But that can and does happen in every other league we mentioned in the story. Each team plays 8 conference games. Either those games should count or they shouldn’t. And if they don’t, then why play them?

Thanks for reading,John

By: XIlarf

XIlarf — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:46:09 +0000

Simple fix for this, though – just add a rule that if you are undefeated in your division you win the division regardless of the of your record against other teams. It’s logical, sensible, and requires no other changes. If no one in you division could beat you, you are the best in the division. If no one is undefeated in their division then use the existing rules to determine the division winner.

All you fans of other SEC teams (both East and West) imagine how it would feel next year (or the year after, or the year after that…) if your team went undefeated in their division but did not win the division – you would likely be looking for a change also.

By: RB

RB — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:41:50 +0000

It’s funny Spurrier brings it up when his Gamecocks have the best chance to beat their present cross division rival, Arkansas, in years. You would think he would want that game to count, or is he still worried about a currently head coachless Razorback team playing at his place?

By: Ubiquitous GA Alum

Ubiquitous GA Alum — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 15:20:59 +0000

What’s next, Stevie? Do-overs?

By: ArkyOwl

ArkyOwl — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:45:24 +0000

I don’t like Spurrier’s suggestion but I would like the SEC to change it’s scheduling formula. In addition to the one permanent opponent from the other division (for rivalry’s sake) rather than rotating the other teams year by year, I’d like them to adopt an NFL like schedule whereby the #1 team in the west plays the #1 team in the east the next year, with #2 vs. #2 and so on. That would help take care of the unfair strength of schedule argument.

By: Bubba Gump

Bubba Gump — Thu, 19 Apr 2012 14:27:00 +0000

John, not on topic but comment on the new tab for the schools including TAMU and MU. TAMU is Maroon, not Crimson or Scarlet so I am guessing they should look more like MSU than Bama. For some reason the tabs are also hanging off the Left Margin instead of the Center like they used to – meaning sometimes I hit the Home button instead of the one for Bama. Don’t know if the Arkansas and Auburn folks had the same issues, as they were in the same area as the Home button.