Comments on: Emmert Talks About Changing Cultures (Just Pay No Attention To The Cash Behind The Curtain)

By: Bocktean

Bocktean — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 16:26:03 +0000

@John at MrSEC ??? Let’s back up.

Of course it’s money-driven. That, in and of itself, is no big deal. Everything in our culture is money-driven, even non-profits: churches, adoption agencies, you name it. I use those two examples because the amount of money I’ve funneled into those two versus college sports would be a ratio of approximately 100 to 1.

Making money should be a means to an end, not an end justifying all means. That’s where Penn State crossed the line. They protected the mission of making money rather than (take your pick: basic human decency, education, etc). And that line is increasingly being blurred in the wider culture by this following sensibility: “Did we make a huge profit? Then the Invisible Hand approves; damn the consequences to others.” A Goldman Sachs executive resigned a few months ago and wrote a blistering op-ed saying that GS’ business model had degenerated into legalized theft, preying on the trust on clients to churn and burn their accounts. Reaction by a significant chunk of the opinion-ators: “Yawn. They’re making money. It’s what they’re supposed to be doing. Clients should be better informed.” Seriously?

So – when that line gets crossed, it needs to be highlighted. it needs to be corrected. The courts are not going to highlight it. They deal in minutia for the most part, not social statements, even if people want to interpret their rulings in that light.

Professional associations of lawyers, CPAs and doctors understand this and police themselves above and beyond the courts. The NCAA just exercised that right. I’d like to see more of that sensibility at work in our culture, rather than just leaving our notions of “community” up to the courts and cable television.

By: gatorwhisperer

gatorwhisperer — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 05:35:37 +0000

@John at MrSEC
Thanks for responding, John. You’re such a charismatic and endearing sweetheart.

I genuinely like your site, but I think you may be a little too thin-skinned to write opinion pieces and get so passive-aggressive (or just aggressive) in your comment responses.

John: “I said money drives the culture. Until schools aren’t trying to protect multi-million dollar athletic programs, the culture won’t change. End of point.”

Hmm,.. I think I get your point. Maybe you can educate me… what “Straw Man” schools (and please name names, John) are unethically or irresponsibly trying to “protect” athletic programs? What are they “protecting” them from? Don’t twist the knife in your response, John, as I may be just a “Simpleton,” as you put it (I prefer to use the pejorative term, “mouth breather”) and I may be simply naive about the corrupt Star Chambers that permeate inside of all of the SEC schools. You know, I don’t have access to all of the comprehensive “fact based” sources you do and all…

John: “I always get a kick out of Simpletons — and it’s clear you are one — who try to label a writer they don’t like as being in some rival political party. ”

Dude, you’re coming across as a bully. I’m not a Simpleton (wait, am I?!). I didn’t call you names (thanks, really mature, John). And I never said I didn’t like you. To the contrary, I genuinely appreciate your counter-mob perspective and I especially appreciate your cynical perspective. Not to pander, but your insights into conference realignments earlier this summer were phenomenal. Still, you don’t have to be a Richard. And I don’t care what political party you are in as long as you don’t vote for Obama. :p

John: “This site aims for intelligent readers. Story after story, you prove through your comments — “Give us more hot coeds stories” — that you’re not in our target demo.”

Seriously, you need to get a better sense of humor. As far as I know you have never posted a coed story and I have plenty of other bookmarks I can visit if I really wanted to perv college coeds. It’s called levity and humor. Someday you should expand upon your narrow literary and grammer skills and try it. (Sorry, that was out of line, but my backspace key is broken. I apologize profusely and unreservedly). I, like you, am in my 40′s. (At least I try to act my age… sometimes.) I am also certain my demographics are exactly what your site’s declining CPM rates desire.

Hopefully one day you can learn to take counter perspectives better. Also, hopefully one day, your site will re-find its roots in quality SEC *journalism* again and will leave the PSU oped articles to SI/ MSNBC (is there a MrBig10.com?) and the anti-gun oped articles to the Huffington Post (and the coed articles to NaughtyCoedsAndOrangeAndBlueBallGags.com).

Best regards,

Shane C. Senior, CFA
Managing Director and co-founder
Crosstree Capital Partners
Tampa, FL
http://www.crosstreecapital.com
Member SIPC/ FINRA

ps – Like JohnTaylor, I also appreciate that you keep it “real” by responding to comments to your articles. Sorry that you seem to take the comments so personally.

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 03:46:56 +0000

@Bocktean

And again you miss the point. In fact, you’ve come up with something I’m having a hard time following.

The culture of “king sports” is money-driven. If you don’t understand that or accept that then that’s your call, but I think 99.9% of people agree that what makes sports king on a campus is its monetary value.

You say you like that Emmert is stating it’s time to kill that culture. Okay. I’ve got no problem with that, either.

But as I’ve now stated about 50 times in the post above and the comment boxes below, until all the schools and Emmert’s own NCAA starting drawing the line you speak of… yesterday’s comments were hollow.

John

By: Bocktean

Bocktean — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 01:40:37 +0000

@John at MrSEC He didn’t bust PSU for making money. He busted PSU for putting the printing of money ahead of child rape victims. The pursuit of money has become a sacred thing in our culture, to the point that it supersedes almost everything else and becomes an end justifying heinous means. A big enough profit washes away all sins, it seems. That’s hardly unique to college football, and I’m glad someone finally decided to draw a line somewhere. And for the record, I would like to see it drawn a little more aggressively in areas besides college football.

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:36:52 +0000

@gatorwhisperer

Wow. You really don’t belong around here.

No one is “demonizing” people for making money. I said money drives the culture. Until schools aren’t trying to protect multi-million dollar athletic programs, the culture won’t change. End of point.

I always get a kick out of Simpletons — and it’s clear you are one — who try to label a writer they don’t like as being in some rival political party. We launched this site when Bush was in office and I had people respond to some of my posts as “typical right wing southern redneck,” etc, etc.

This site aims for intelligent readers. Story after story, you prove through your comments — “Give us more hot coeds stories” — that you’re not in our target demo.

John

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:33:26 +0000

@dee6634

You state: “The culture at PSU needs to change – just like it does at so many other universities across the country.”

Agreed.

But — and this was my point — that’s not going to happen as long as schools and their presidents are switching leagues and creating playoffs and paying their NCAA prez $1.6 million from big TV deals. Money drives the culture. Unless folks are willing to leave cash on the table to put sports back in a proper place… then cultures aren’t likely to change.

Thanks for reading,
John

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:30:49 +0000

@gatorwhisperer

You take umbrage with me for “the ridiculous and somewhat offensive notion that similar to the culture at PSU, other ‘big time NCAA institutions’ put money ahead of athletes and students.”

Sorry, you don’t take umbrage with me, if that’s the case. You take umbrage with Emmert himself who said:

“These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the ‘sports are king’ mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgement of educators.”

AND…

“If you find yourself in a place where the athletic culture is taking precedence over academic culture then a variety of bad things can occur.”

Emmert’s words. Not mine. They were included in the post above for all to read. Maybe you just skipped to the comment box and failed to read what was written.

Emmert suggested — and most everyone I heard yesterday took it to mean — that other big-time departments better stop putting athletics-first.

I simply wrote that those are hollow comments so long as schools and presidents do anything and everything in a chase for athletics dollars.

What that has to do with “left” field, I don’t know. And you’re the one drawing Penn State’s crimes into the story. I’m not writing about crimes. And Emmert was talking about overall campus cultures. He didn’t say, “Other schools better not let kids be abused.” He said “sports are king” has to end. And I simply pointed out that cultures won’t change until sports dollars cease to rule.

You better let Emmert know you took umbrage with what he said.

John

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:22:03 +0000

@Bocktean

I think you missed the point.

Emmert says it’s time for schools to change their athletics-first cultures. We say as along as schools are doing everything possible — changing conferences, starting playoffs they said they’d never start — in a chase for cash, then those athletics-first cultures aren’t going to change.

And I don’t see how anyone can argue that point. Penn State was protecting a money-maker. If Jerry Sandusky had been a badminton coach, here’s guessing he’d have been fired immediately.

It’s likely — as Emmert suggested — that other athletics-first cultures would protect their cash cows, too. So much so that they would cover up Sandusky-like crimes? Probably not… but that wasn’t anywhere near the point of this post.

Thanks for reading,John

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 00:18:18 +0000

@KWD

This has nothing to do with whether or not the NCAA should have gotten involved.

The obvious point is that it’s a little silly for Mark Emmert to talk about changing cultures when the NCAA and its member institutions are so driven by cash. That’s a totally different subject. And a darn important one to talk about.

Penn State covered up crimes to protect its biggest cash cow. That same culture exists in a lot of places. As Emmert suggests. Until schools are willing to stop letting athletic dollars strongly influence their decisions, that culture won’t change.

That’s a totally separate — and I think important point — to discuss following Emmert’s comments yesterday.

Thank you for reading,John

By: KWD

KWD — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 22:42:38 +0000

John,

I understand you disagree with the NCAA involvement here, but I think your critical approach to Mark Emmert comes across as petty. Most of us have plenty to criticize the NCAA about but this is probably not the time to paint the NCAA as an uncaring, money grubbing organization. Save it for another time. This has nothing to do with teams switching conferences or how much money Rose Bowl television rights are or how much money Mark Emmert makes.

At least understand that Emmert and the NCAA were between a rock and a bolder.They would have been criticized either way. If you want to argue that the NCAA exceeded the precedent and scope of their organization then you may have a sustainable case. Otherwise, you just seem to be airing your grievances against the NCAA. I am sure you will have plenty of opportunities in the future to point out the greed and lack of leadership in the NCAA.

By: gatorwhisperer

gatorwhisperer — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 19:41:29 +0000

Agmom,

What the author said, “The realists out there know that the MONEY made from collegiate athletics is exactly what DRIVES the type of CULTURE Emmert badmouthed on Monday.” (emphasis added) “When … institutions no longer put [money] first, then Emmert can talk about changing the culture.”

The primary points I took away from this blog post are, (1) money drives [corrupt] culture, and (2) the NCAA (or at least Emmert) is a two-faced hypocrite because it gets paid by [the corrupt, greedy] athletic programs, and (3) colleges exploit athletes for money. I strongly disagree with the flawed logic of all of these points.

I posit that, “the realists out there know,” that conflicts of interest exist everywhere in the real world – in business, in journalism, in sponsored research, and, yes, even in the pure and pristine world of collegiate athletics. There is no Utopia. Money will always be there. Conflicts will always exist. Which is fine so long as it does not inappropriately influence university decision-making, as it egregiously did in the case of PSU.

I take umbrage with the author not over whether or not it is the NCAA’s place to punish PSU (although I think it is), but over the ridiculous and somewhat offensive notion that similar to the culture at PSU, other “big time NCAA institutions” put money ahead of athletes and students. Come on. PSU officials bypassed their own human resources department, kept their trustees in the dark, and violated federal law in order to avoid a damaging story about child abuse. You can’t paint every other university with the same brush. John is way out in “left” field on this (pun intended).

Shane

By: Bocktean

Bocktean — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:21:02 +0000

“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Makes sense.

But someone has to make a decision to do something or do nothing. Yes, the universities are making money hand over fist from games played by young men and women who receive services of some value but no real money for their efforts. And I suppose you could argue that removes all moral authority to pass judgements of any kind.

Penn State basically put Sandusky in charge of their Child Relations division – after knowing what he had been accused of. I am not going to lose sight of that just because the judge and jury in this case have warts.

By: Agmom81

Agmom81 — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:20:38 +0000

gatorwhisperer – I agree with you about money-makers being demonized all too often. As the wife of one of them – who wants to keep the life to which I have become accustomed – I am all for capitalism! In my mind,..it’s really not the money as much as the PRIORITY system that places the money above all else! Whether it’s a football program or an individual – if priorities get out of whack (and money is but one of the things that can do it!) there is a breakdown in the fabric of the value system. Penn State got out of whack – big time – and it is a cautionary tale for all.

I don’t think this is in opposition to what MrSec was trying to say here, btw. I, too, am a bit leery of the NCAA being the best judge of the ”integrity, ethics, and virtuous moral standards” you rightly propose can prosper, even in a prosperous environment!

By: dee6634

dee6634 — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 13:41:36 +0000

“Football will never again be placed ahead of educating, nurturing and protecting young people,” NCAA President Mark Emmert said at Monday’s press conference.

The culture at PSU needs to change – just like it does at so many other universities across the country.You can count on one finger, the number of schools in the SEC where athletics don’t rule the roost. In my opinion, The Big 10 and Big 12 and schools in numerous other conferences are too big and self governing. That needs to change.

Good job by the NCAA. For once, they got it right.

By: gatorwhisperer

gatorwhisperer — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:32:44 +0000

OMG, how ridiculous. More demonizing of people making money.

Most of the adult world (except Obama and Mr. SEC, apparently) is cognizant that the pursuit of money can coexist with integrity, ethics, and virtuous moral standards. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever wrong with institutions maximizing the value of their sports programs. Period.