Comments on: An NCAA Show-Cause Penalty Would Likely Lead To Haith’s Ouster At Mizzou

By: jimmybowlin

jimmybowlin — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 05:21:39 +0000

Funny why hasn’t John Calipari ever had to face the music for all of his NCAA infractions committed at his former schools? Sounds to me like right now the NCAA is starting to come under major scrutiny for how it handles these investigations after recent news has leaked out that they paid Shapiro’s attorney to obtain information outside of normal NCAA protocal. My guess is this whole mess will end up in a court system with the NCAA losing very badly and further damaging it’s already substandard reputation. Furthermore, how come the NCAA takes what Shapiro says seriously when he says he paid Miami athletes but doesn’t take him seriously when he says he couldn’t afford to pay SEC football players as they were already being paid outside of his price range? Sort of fishy to me and reminds me of the whole Cam Newton debacle.

By: Sheizman

Sheizman — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 03:34:19 +0000

John @ Mr. SEC,
Sure glad you called out SpencerMoore for being such a crazy conspiracy nut. There is NO WAY a fired, disgraced KU Law grad who worked for the KU athletic dept would EVER do anything to harm the University of Missouri. You called that one right on the money.
It is painfully obvious that you aren’t pleased with MU being in the SEC. But it looks like you are going to have to deal with having an AAU school with good TV markets, a top 25 basketball program, and a football program that struggled in 2012 but has proven its worth over the past 10 years with Pinkel. We are here to stay. Get used to it.

By: badbadhoggie

badbadhoggie — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:05:15 +0000

@Sheizman @badbadhoggie @SpencerMoore
This is true….but we sent our lying cheating harley riding coach a packing now didn’t we! And yes i look forward to playing the tigers again, there were some great games in the past with Nolan Richardson and Norm Stewart, always exciting and a packed house…And now that we’ll compete against each other in other sports it should make for a nice rivalry in the future…

By: Mightymo

Mightymo — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 03:55:50 +0000

Frank Haith lives on!

By: Sheizman

Sheizman — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 23:13:32 +0000

@badbadhoggie @SpencerMoore We’ll see about the sanctions. Don’t count your Tyson chickens. BTW, MU didn’t make the choice to get rid of Anderson, he did that all by himself. But I am certainly glad we got Coach Haith. Looks like we are both pleased to be cross division rivals. It’s a good situation for both teams. Evenly matched. Should be fun to go to Fayetteville and watch some games. I always liked that town. That was a cheap shot at Coach Pinkel. Lord knows one of your football coaches would NEVER break the rules or the law. For the record, Coach Pinkel blew a .08, which is the same as 3 drinks. Every person who drinks alcohol and drives a car has done the same, don’t lie to yourself. He was unlucky enough to get caught. Still a better man than your lying, cheating Harley- riding former coach.

By: badbadhoggie

badbadhoggie — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:56:32 +0000

@Sheizman @badbadhoggie @SpencerMoore
There will be sanctions thats for sure, and i’m guessing it won’t be the last time they have a chat with mr haith in the future…good to hear that your glad Anderson is gone, we’re glad to have him…whe will see long term who made the better choice? And i to can’t wait for Moo U to be our permenant west division apponent, theings will get much easier for the hogs also…it’s getting sweeter by the moment…i understand your at a disadvantage, pinkel can’t coach on tuesday’s and thurdays due to his state alcohol abuse classes he must attent…

By: Sheizman

Sheizman — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:39:25 +0000

@badbadhoggie @SpencerMoore Hog–You sure can’t tell that you aren’t anti-Mizzou by your comments.
1) Maybe you haven’t read other articles about the Haith/UM situation but maybe you should prior to writing that “Moo U had to know this was coming when they hire Haith”. This situation is smellier than last weeks fish. There will be likely zero sanctions on Coach Haith or the MU program given the new info on the hatchet job by the NCAA.
2) I’ll take Haith every day and twice on Sundays over your current basketball coach. During his time in Columbia, Coach Anderson put his feelers out every year and strong armed the administration into giving him multiple raises. Then, after the last big raise, Coach Anderson stated unequivocally that he just loved MU and would never leave. No sooner did he say that then he was in Fayetteville. Not the most trustworthy guy in the world. You can have him and his “40 minutes of missed assignments defense”. MU then hires the self made Haith, who took 7 scholarship players and guided them to a 30-5 record. Just slightly better than Anderson’s record at UA. Then CFH signs a top 20 class for 2013 and has a team ranked in the top 25 despite losing the NCAA 6th man of the year from last year and his leading scorer to an MCL injury. How is UA doing this year? At least this site thinks they won’t make the Big Dance. Do you think maybe you guys overpaid for CMA? So to say Coach Haith is an average coach is laughable at best. Correct me if I am wrong but he did win some National Coach of the Year honors last year, did he not? Do they give those to average coaches?
3) I remember the last time MU played UA, there were posts all over prior to the game how Arkansas from the SEC was going to run all over MU with McFadden, Jones and Hillis. How a measly Big 12 school didn’t even belong on the same field. Of course, that was BEFORE the game. After the game if was all excuses about how you didn’t have your coach. Although I don’t remember Pnkel suiting up and playing. Just because your team has been in the SEC for 20+ years to win anything doesn’t mean it’s going to take MU that long. I can’t wait until UA becomes our permanent SEC West rival. It’ll be a whole lot easier than playing A&M every year.

By: MoKelly1

MoKelly1 — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:15:10 +0000

@bradleyglenncarr Coach Pinkle had a very bad 2012 from a personal perspective with the divorce and DWI stuff. I think he is smart enough to know certain things must change to be competitive in the SEC — but, he has pride and perhaps doesn’t want to tip his hand. Also, the Big XII arguably has been the 2nd strongest football conference in the BCS era so being in the Big XII wasn’t minor ;eague ball. I also can’t wait for Spring Training to begin!

By: Sheizman

Sheizman — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:02:14 +0000

@John at MrSEC @SpencerMoore I consider myself a fair and balanced MU fan. I actually have a son that attends KU and have a daughter that is planning on doing so as well. But I agree with SpencerMoores post 100%. This case has been an absolute joke from the beginning. The NCAA is somehow taking the word of a convicted felon serving a 20 year sentence for a $1 billion Ponzi scheme and using it to try and take down Miami and Frank Haith. Nevin Shapiro, the lying weasel promised to “take down the program down in Chinatown” and is doing his damndest, with the help of the incompetents at the NCAA. As you reported just a couple hours ago, the NCAA clearly has some explaining to do about their investigation and the KU grad lead investigator. For some reason you discount the fact the a KU grad would do anything in their power to take down MU. Substitute Auburn and Alabama and ask yourself the same question. Do you think an Auburn or Alabama grad would distort the truth to take down their rival? Bet you dollars to doughnuts they would.

As far as the football learning curve issue, Spencer is also right on the money. 2012 was the perfect storm of injuries, tougher than expected opponents, and poor coaching that gave the Tigers their 5-7 record. I am a season ticket holder and watched each of their games multiple times. Now I am not going to sit here and claim MU is currently even close to the same level as Bama, LSU, USC or Georgia. But MU outplayed UF in the Swamp and lost because our injured QB threw 4 horrendous picks, 3 of which came in the red zone. MU also had 140 yards of total offense in the 1st half of the 1st quarter against Vandy prior to Franklin getting hurt. No way they lose that game if he played. MU did get outclassed and embarrassed by Bama, USC and A&M. No excuse for that. But MU will be back in 2013 and, barring the crazy amount of injuries of 2012, will be competitive in every game. 7-5 worst case, 9-3 best case scenario. Bank on it.

By: badbadhoggie

badbadhoggie — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:40:30 +0000

@SpencerMoore @Central
Surely Moo U had to know all this was coming when they hired Haith, he was under ncaa heat/scrutiny whle still at the U….I realize they were caught somewhat shorthanded when Mike Anderson left for the UofA…But with his limited sucsess and reputation it still baffles me as to why they made the hire in the first place? If they choose to keep him, it’s a steep price to pay for what appears to be an average coach at best! I’m not anti mizzou and always enjoyed the rivalry between the tigers and my Hogs! And as far as football is concerned, the tigers have a long way to go and will learn the same lesson the Razorbacks did 20+ yrs ago, it’s a whole different world competting in the Big XII/Southwest Conference and navigating your way through the SEC, i’m sure they believe they are ready to compete, i guess they will have to learn the hard way each saturday in the fall!

By: TheN8tureBoy

TheN8tureBoy — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 17:10:10 +0000

@John at MrSEC

Really? Robots don’t create these posts?

Thanks for making the site.

Ric

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:46:50 +0000

@TheN8tureBoy

Can you tell we’re more patient on some days than others?

Oh… and thanks for reading the site. As always,

John

By: Tracer Round

Tracer Round — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:11:51 +0000

@John at MrSEC
Thanks John. I guess I really did not understand what “show cause” really means in terms of what can the NCAA do directly, i.e. Can they prohibit him from coaching? I understand they can hit the University with sanctions, but did not know what authority they had over a coach directly.

By: TheN8tureBoy

TheN8tureBoy — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 16:04:52 +0000

@John at MrSEC @SpencerMoore Thanks for reading the site,

Ric

By: bradleyglenncarr

bradleyglenncarr — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:56:27 +0000

As a Mizzou J-school grad (ages ago) and big supporter of the university, I must say that it’s been really tough to be a Tiger. Frank Haith’s problems only serve to bring more of the depression to Mizzou’s athletic program. A week or more before national signing day, let’s not forget Coach Pinkel’s unwillingness to understand that playing in the SEC requires a new offensive scheme, a much more aggressive strength and conditioning program, and most important, a revamped recruiting program. I thought it was the ultimate hubris on his part during SEC Media Days when he said MU wouldn’t change its offense and likened the fact that playing in the Big XII wasn’t like playing against cream puffs (referring to the Sooners and Huskers). Every football endures injuries and has the ability to reload with quality back-ups. Not Mizzou. Such a shame for those of us who couldn’t wait to get out of that other dysfunctional conference! Can’t wait for baseball season to start!

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:24:23 +0000

@SpencerMoore @Central

First, there are leaks from the NCAA just like there are leaks in the government. People talk. Missouri isn’t the first team to have info leak out ahead of time (if this info is correct). So here’s an order for you — Stop blaming Kansas for your mess. You sound like a conspiracy nut.

Second, if I had NOT written the part about a possible three-year recruiting ban as an example, I’d have gotten questions — Hell I still got a question below — about why Missouri would have to fire Haith. You say they couldn’t keep him. Other Tiger fans believe they could. I tried to show why every football and basketball coach hit with a show-cause penalty has been fired. Period.

Third, I’ll stop “the SEC learning curve BULL” when Missouri has the horses to run with their fellow SEC teams. Until their offensive and defensive lines are bigger and deeper, they’ll still have a ways to go. And this from someone who supported Missouri’s move into the conference and who thinks their injuries crushed their chances last season.

Fourth — Stop acting as though you can tell the writers of this free site what to do. You can’t. And it’s getting old reading your conspiracy-filled, angry rants under every story that doesn’t kiss the rear end of the Missouri Tigers.

John

By: Quidam65

Quidam65 — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:21:25 +0000

Arkansas was quite willing to send Petrino packing, though his mess involved getting his mistress on the payroll ahead of over 100 other applicants (if any of them were more qualified AND a member of a protected group–minority and/or over age 40–now you’re dealing with the Feds who make the NCAA look like gentle folks).

And let’s not forget how quickly Penn State dumped Paterno when that news finally came out–they wouldn’t even let him bow out at the end of the season. And that was MUCH worse than recruiting stuff.

Mizzou can’t, and won’t, keep Haith around. No program can afford to put itself that deep in a hole–the big money boosters will keep their wallets closed tight.

By: SpencerMoore

SpencerMoore — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 08:37:07 +0000

Finally, some of the media is beginning to ask “Who leaked the info. to Goodman – and why?” Is the NCAA trying to muddy the waters before they unleash murky findings to justrify their nearly two year investigation? The NCAA’s credibility is surely compromised yet again with such a curious breach (if Goodman’s story is true that he got it from an insider). More so, it’s rumored that the NCAA’s lead investigator is the kansas grad/bimbo that recently botched the Shabazz Muhammed investigation by blabbing it all on a plane with her boyfriend. hmmmmm. And more so, that even the “committee” reviewing it all is made up of two: one with a ku graduate degree, the other employed by a KC law firm owned by a jayhawk, Seriously!?!?! Is anyone investigating this? Sounds like the target of these bitter ku grads is actually Mizzou and not Haith and Miami. Very bizarre.

BTW. to even suggest that Mizzou would keep Haith and endure 3 years of recruiting bans is ludicrous, so please stop suggesting that is even in the realm of possibly for consideration by MU.

And for goddsakes stop the SEC learning curve BULL. A perfect storm of bad luck and unfortunate timing (forced to play a hurriedly assembled tough non-conf. schedule and a bettter-than-expected East, for example), sure, but playing and beating SEC teams in football was never a problem of Missouri’s before — in any decade. Mizzou’s starting QB was injured BEFORE the season started and on-and (mostly)-off throughout. The starting RB injured BEFORE the season started, too. Several other o-line starters injured BEFORE the season started. Nothing to do with the SEC. Nothing. And once the season started, more injuries mounted and the Tigers’ woes were as evident vs. Ga. (4th qrtr), SC, Bama (reeling, playing a frosh QB and in a virtual hurricane…talk about a perfect storm) and the (new) A&M, just as they were vs. ASU, @Central Florida (Tiger wins, but….) and Syracuse. That said, Mizzou finished with the nation’s toughest schedule and their opponents were an amazing: 13-1, 12-2, 11-2, 11-2, 11-2, 10-4, 9-4, 8-5, 8-5. And two those were Mizzou wins! I still believe that with Mississippi State’s powderpuff schedule, the Tigers would have won 7 games — even with all the injuries. And with Mizzou’s schedule, the Bulldogs would have won 4 games. Tops.

But, you are right, this is messy and all unnecessarily unpleasant for Mizzou fans especially when hopes were so high.

By: John at MrSEC

John at MrSEC — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 05:54:59 +0000

@Tracer Round

So what exactly can the NCAA do to Haith directly?

From above: ”If Goodman’s source is correct, the NCAA believes Haith gave investigators false information. Due to the NCAA’s lack of subpoena power, lying to its investigators is as big a sin in the eyes of the governing body as paying a player. For that reason, the misleading of investigators almost always results in a show-cause penalty… and show-cause penalties always result in dismissals for football and men’s basketball coaches. Head coach or assistant coach, winning coach or losing coach, a show-cause ban is the closest thing to an NCAA death sentence.”

Why would UM consider terminating or “be forced” to terminate him? (Technically, Missouri goes by MU.)

From above: ”Most often, school administrators do not want a coach living under a show-cause cloud to tarnish the institution’s name. And in Haith’s case, a clause in his contract gives MU the right to fire him for ‘any behavior of the Employee that brings him into public disrepute, contempt, scandal or ridicule or any behavior that is unfavorable to the reputation or moral or ethical standards of the University.’ Haith’s contract even covers ‘any violation which occurred during prior employment of the Employee at another NCAA member institution.’

If he’s hit with a show-cause penalty, it shouldn’t be too tough for Missouri to fire Haith for ’cause’ and escape without paying him one penny of buyout cash.

For those Tiger fans who would prefer Mizzou just ride things out with Haith, are you prepared to have Haith’s situation brought up during every single broadcast of an MU basketball game? Are you prepared for a national debate — played out from ESPN to your favorite local talk radio station — over whether or not Mizzou embarrassed itself by keeping an “unethical” coach on its payroll? Do you believe your school’s administrators and biggest boosters are prepared for that kind of negative publicity?
Tennessee’s boosters and administrators weren’t when it came to the highly-successful Pearl. Ohio State boosters and administrators weren’t when it came to their highly-successful football coach, Jim Tressel. The people charged with running an institution of higher learning typically don’t stand by a coach if his firing alone will snuff out wave after wave of bad press.”

What would it mean to UM from an NCAA standpoint if they kept him?

From above: ”If the NCAA feels that Haith is a dirty coach and it wants to punish him for his deeds at Miami, it can punish him for those deeds while he’s at Missouri. For example, if Mizzou ignored the show-cause penalty and chose to keep him, there would be nothing to stop the NCAA from hitting Haith with a three-year recruiting ban. How do you think the Tiger basketball program would fare if its head coach couldn’t hit the road, scout AAU games, or even meet with recruits during their official visits to campus?”

Thanks for rea…

Uh, thanks for visiting the site,
John

By: I4Bama

I4Bama — Wed, 23 Jan 2013 01:39:58 +0000

@MoKelly1
There is being certain of what Barry Bonds did, and then there is being able to prove it. When they know it occurred, but cannot prove it, they reach for “misleading” sorts of charges. It is grasping to get him somehow for what they know he did but cannot prove.

By: Tracer Round

Tracer Round — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:56:44 +0000

So what exactly can the NCAA do to Haith directly? Why would UM consider terminating or ‘be forced’ to terminate him? What would it mean to UM from an NCAA standpoint if they kept him?

By: MoKelly1

MoKelly1 — Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:51:56 +0000

Helpful article — thanks. If Haith is charged, appeals and still loses, I for one would expect Mizzou to fire the guy. A University cannot have a coach who does these sort of things. There has to be consequences. However, it seems to me it would be unfair for Alden to get tarnished due to the Haith issues. It took the NCAA almost 2 years to do their investigation of Haith and (apparently) find issues they can prove (I am assuming they can prove the issues). It seems to me to be unreasonable to expect Alden could do anything faster or more complete. Plus, my guess is Mizzou got the favorable contract language to fire Haith in the contract for this possibility. So, it seems to me Alden did as well as he could in the circumstances.

I’m not big on the “misleading” violations. My goodness. After prosecuting Barry Bonds for many years all the Feds could get was that he “mislead” them. Being “misleading” many times is in the eye of the beholder. If he really diod something bad they’d charge him with lying. But the money laundering thing is not acceptable.

Just my 2 cents.